Very interesting...

I would like to add one tiny thing...
When I stated that I was a customer, and feel that I deserve at least the affirmation that my thought and opinions matter, I was questioned about my purchases....

"Also, what did you purchase that made you a customer? There are
no registrations under either of your two email addresses nor
the name (my real name removed by me"

I sent my ODNT information to the person that asked the question...The reason that my purchase isn't in my name is because, Object Desktop Network Edition was a gift.

I discovered Style XP before any of the Stardock software and thought "Oh, how great", but in my hunt for skins, I found WC and Stardock....the software, available from Stardock , in my opinion, was/is far more superior to the software from TGT Soft.....and after spending days and days exploring the galleries here at WC and downloading the free skins provided here, I decided that I just HAD to buy the software....

At this time, I had no intention of making skins myself, but wanted the software to be free of limitations...and I also wanted to be able to download as many skins as I wanted.

I had gotten a new computer for Christmas and for my birthday, in January, ALL I wanted was Object Desktop! Once I started opening my new software without limitations and downloading without them too....I could think of nothing more than to learn how to use it..and start creating skins myself!

I have spent hundreds of hours learning and creating because I find skinning to be GREAT fun. It's my hobby...my only hobby anymore...I don't work, so skinning is pretty much all I do....and I LOVE it...or at least I did....

And not only did I love skinning, but I love skins and skinners, in general...even skins I don't care for I find to be art...I don't have to like the skin itself to be able to appreciate the hard work and effort a skinner puts into his/her work...I honestly believe that skinning is an art form...

I've felt lucky to have been permitted by some fantastic skinners, the opportunity to port their work....and even more lucky to have been in communication with these people too. For the most part the skinners I've talked to in one way or another have been friendly and helpful as well as talented and fun!!

I couldn't have been happier had I bought the other software...and I've never enjoyed something...hobby wise....as much as I've enjoyed skinning & collecting (I guess you could say that I'm like a coin collector...I really enjoy downloading and playing with other author's skins)....but after all the pettiness and conflict over the past months...well I suppose it's all lost it's appeal...

At this point I have no desire to even open any of the OD software...or any of the other software that I bought that I use for image editing...and let me say here...that I've spent several hundred dollars on that stuff too....in addition to buying OD, CursorXP Plus and Object Dock Plus...as I'm sure MANY of you have...

All the ugliness has really caused me to not care if I ever make another skin...or rate another skin....and I sure don't feel like making comments or helping the people that contact me everyday asking "How"!

It'd just NOT fun anymore.

So to be doubly clear, you can upload your own work, but only link to the work of others.

This is so strange, because I see lots of Starones skins uploaded with permission as suites by other people. Yet, I haven't heard any of the requirements that are being forced upon TNBrat and Pinchecl. I didn't see any of these requirements when anyone decided to port the Airlock theme to other applications(hint:Jafo). This is just plain strange and basically unfair.

It would seem to me that such work would make the themes better, and the quality of the themes better for the site. I personally believe that TNBrat and Pinchecl are being unfairly singled out here. But, I see it in life too, so its really nothing new. I had just hoped that WC would be above such things. Oh well...

Look at the first page of the suites library. Jimbo is using everyone elses skins to make a suite. Elvee used all of Starones skins to make a suite. Yet, it is totally under his account and the rating and counts go to him completely. He has nothing to do with Starone. Yet, I don't see any of these requirements being forced upon them. It is strange, so strange.

So, why all the uproar about TN ports and Pinchecl skins in a suite? So, now TNBrat can't rate Pinchecl skins just because she likes them enough to want to port them to other applications? It would again seem to make the overall theme quality better for all. Why should she be punished for liking a skin enough to port it? Unless, of course she is getting paid for her work.. not. I understand how she can feel that this isn't fun anymore. It wouldn't be fun for me anymore either, to spend all this free time and then being punished and harangued for doing good work. I would love it if someone would port some of my skins over to DesktopX. But, now there seems that they may have to become a offical partner or something..Its ridiclous..we are not getting paid here..it is suppose to be fun..
[Message Edited]

ChasUGC ...there has been confusion over time with regards to the suite and theme sections......where it becomes 'difficult' to distinguish what is being uploaded by an author and what is being included from others that should not be.

You only upload your own skins....and you link to others'.  The 'suite' will then download and/or install everything 'listed'.

If an author who 'owns' a skin within another's suite decides to remove his skin from public access [as he may wish to, being his right] an included link will 'die' with that skin removal.

If a person actually includes this person's skin then the author of the skin has no control over its removal.

That is a copyright issue....and 'collaborative works' are even worse...if you do not believe me ask ChiChiGirl her opinion.

Suite files are NOT supposed to contain the property of another person, only download links to that property.

Eventually we can get into the existing uploads and sift through them for compliance.

As to 'personal opinions', they are only as valid as their basis of understanding, so are best left unaired.

TN Brat! ....It's only appropriate that you consider the wider picture beyond the insular realm of yours and Pinchecl's creations and understand that the role of the Skinning sites' Administrators is to protect the rights and property of all...from the lofty heights of the Adni18's of this world to the struggling 'Hi, how do I get windows blinds to work?' Newbie who has just discovered our environment.

Most of this is predominantly thankless while our/their best intentions are attacked by factional disruptive people with agendas to promote.....though much of that is down to wanting to say something just for the sake of being heard, not for any real pith or validity.

Go back to post #44....which is a re-iteration of the end of post #29.

This post is a long-winded version of those 2.

End of story.

 Dang.....only 2 't's in 'iteration'.

[Message Edited]

Ya know considering that

"WC is not a democracy. It is actually part of a business,..."

Then I would think you would encourage high ratings "to promote a skin..."

If you think about it, you loose money when the skins are rated lower than a 6, because "Newbie who has just discovered our environment." That hasn't made a purchase or subscribed to WC is un-able to see any skins rated under that 6 (I think ita 6, correct me if I'm wrong) and therefore may not buy your software.

ChasUGC, sorry about using you as an example here....and this is only an example..

ChasUGC's "Thor Weather for DesktopX Objects" could be a deciding factor on weather or not someone makes a purchase.......Newbie's aren't able to see it because of the rating....but the rating is your opinion...well its 3 people's opinion (it has 3 ratings), but for someone else it may be a 10...it may be just the sort of thing they are looking for....but since they can't see it...they are unaware that it's available which may in turn keep them from buying the software...

Honestly, there are a few skins that were the "Deal Breaker" for me. Had I not seen the "Candy Vivian" wallpaper and icons...I wouldn't have bought OD when I did...maybe later, but I don't know...

Follow this link, please to the Candy Vivian I.P. comments....the 4th comment from the top, by Citizen Wombat6...is mine...I wrote it...right after I (my husband) bought ODNT, I didn't know I could link my TNBrat account to my husband's Stardock account, and because he bought it in his name with his email, as a surprise I might add...I thought I had to use his account so that I wouldn't be limited on my downloads....(and I can prove it's be if need be)
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=2&SkinID=1058

Anyway it's benificial to WC AND Stardock IF a skin is rated high...for the purpose of promoting it!

I resent the fact that you accused me of rating to promote. I have said on several occasions that I try to be as fair as possible when rating a skim...I have a set of guidelines I go by
Read some of my comments...even if I don't like a skin, I still leave a positive (overall) comment, I point out things that I like and dislike...and then I try to rate it according to more than personal preferences...I'm not perfect no one is but I honestly take the ratings here seriously...and I consider it an honor to be able to rate....So, when you question my ethics, I tend to get offended...I stand behind my high rating of this skin, just as I do with Niko's!

...I'm not running around slamming anyone and I'm not running around promoting any ONE person.

And no one is talking here just to hear themselves talk.

Lastly...yes if an author decides to remove their work from the public...the Suite link wull die...BUT let's say ChasUGC (sorry about using you again) gave me permission to upload a Suite that actually contained he work...not linked...then he decided to pull all his skins, then he would only have to contact me and tell me to pull the Suite...and if he couldn't reach me or I refused to pull it...then he could contact you and ask that you pull it, in either case he still retains control of his work.

then he decided to pull all his skins, then he would only have to contact me and tell me to pull the Suite...and if he couldn't reach me or I refused to pull it...then he could contact you and ask that you pull it, in either case he still retains control of his work.

If the file is *outside* the suite (as a separate link), then there's no need to go through that rather long-routed method you suggest TN Brat...

(Just from a readers point of view ...no angst intended )

Suite that actually contained he work...not linked...then he decided to pull all his skins, then he would only have to contact me and tell me to pull the Suite...and if he couldn't reach me or I refused to pull it...then he could contact you and ask that you pull it, in either case he still retains control of his work.

Look....it's simply not an option.

As it is we 'apparently' get it wrong with suite upload approvals without complicating the process of having to wait for some potential complaint/demand from a disgruntled skinner who wants his work/s removed from a person's upload.

As for relative rating levels for works to be publicly visible to prospective visitors, that's an issue for the people charged with maintaining Wincustomize.com's financial viability.

The intent is that respectful, responsible people will rate legitimately and fairly and in so doing provide a valid 'filter' to works on public view....which is why issue is taken when there is a perception of bias or anomaly.

I can't believe what I am reading all of this over a Few Ratings, Which every one says the ratings don't count it's the Authors ART work that counts. This just reinforces my feeling that this is all about numbers for a select few. If you MUST have ratings why don't you have the moderators rate the skins, Or set up a panel just for that purpose . I Don't understand why you have the ratings any way. What do the ratings mean. Is the art work great, was there a lot of effort put into the work, dose the theme work right, Do the ratings tell the author where he or she might improve. Or does it just mean that some one likes or dislikes a theme. maybe you should divide wimcustomize into two parts. One for the average person who would like to make skins and have his or her peers tell them what they think about their skins and help them improve their work. a second section for those that JUST have to have all the high ratings and downloads. Or just drop the ratings as they seem to have been a problem for a while now.

"#4 by Madam TN Brat! - 11/2/2004 11:45:17 AM
I believe that opinions are important.
We are the customers after all.
"

Downloading a free skin doesn't make you a customer.

Someone just close this already...geez

Hippy: Buying the program does.

I'm with Chas and TN on this one....

You are correct, but I bought Object Desktop, Cursor XP Plus and Object Dock Plus, so that does make me a customer. #47 explains that.

Ya know, I get the whole thing about the Suite! OK, I get it...#35 I believe says that..

Here's what I don't get...when I upload something here, I agree to give up a certain amount of control of the skin upload. (and to make it clear, this is NOT an issue I'm NOT complaining about Stardock redistributing anything)

"In submitting these files for upload, I agree that they may be included by Stardock in future compilations or libraries.
(for example, as extra samples included with an Object Desktop CD)."

So, basically authors give YOU (WC) permission to redistribute their work.
When Pinchecl gives me permission to upload his skins in a Suite, HE gives ME permission to redistribute his work.
Why then is it ok for you (WC) to tell him he can't give me permission to do that?
If he wants me to upload the Suite, then that's between him and I. As long as there's a permission, why do you care?
When you reject the Suite, you take away a his option to be able to redistribute his works as he wants to.


Thank you Murex, for redirecting this back to the question at hand....That's all the thread was supposed to be about. Ratings. I asked why I wasn't permitted to rate skins I port...
The final verdict on that....
If the skin is a port, then it's ok to rate....if it's a coloborative effort then it's not.

So, considering that some ratings were taken away from a skin I rated and ported, and since it was established that Pinchecl does all the art...he does his own skins...the is kind enough to allow me to port his work, will his ratings be put back?

May I ask, though how anyone can tell me my ratings are wrong? If I give a 10, 5, or a 1...How can that be wrong? Especially, according to the new "Star" rating system. The choices are...
"I hate it"
"I don't like it"
"It's ok"
"I like it"
"I love it"
It is MY opinion, not yours....if "I love it", that should be ok. If you "Hate it", that should be ok too. The ratings suggest personal opinion...there are no options to rate according to functionablilty, or anything like that...I've read comments of skins where a person says that he/she doesn't like the skin, well that's ok...Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. IF this is the rating system here, then that's the way it is...you choose a Star according to how you feel about a skin, fine....I accept that, no problem, but don't come in and tell me my opinion is wrong, because I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong.

And finally DWatson, I know I could count on you for some solid advice...the question was solved. DWatson is correct...
"Someone just close this already...geez"

I am of two minds... lock the thread since you asked, or leave it open to let peole address the last questions you posed.

May I ask, though how anyone can tell me my ratings are wrong? If I give a 10, 5, or a 1...How can that be wrong?

I think the problem here was not the specific ratings you gave, but rather the collaberation or not.  That issue has been addressed and over addressed.

Generally speaking, the rating system is there to let you follow your heart, mind, desires...  Most people treat the system with respect, some do not.  But in the end it all balances out,  hopefully.  This is a new system we are all getting used to.  Given time, perhaps some tweaking here and there, things may seem more balanced.

 

now for the lock:)